MyDD :: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker?

help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker?

by Garret, Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 02:15:10 PM EST

Like many I'm horrified at the prospect of trying to maintain my progressive enthusiasm next year if Hillary wins the nomination. I'd like to get a message out with a bumper sticker reading: Anybody But Hillary, (subtitle)Just Good Enough to Lose. Does anyone here know how to do this? I can print them, but how do I distribute them? Is there a website that would be useful for this?

Thanks!

Tags: Hillary, Obama, Edwards (all tags)

Permalink :: 21 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

I'm sure the Republicans will be happy to help you out...

by PhillyGuy on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 02:22:21 PM EST

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

Actually, if they thought about it for a minute they probably wouldn't.

by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 06:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

Ha ha. I was thinking of doing the same thing. If I find the time, I am going to put up an anti Hillary website.

by Pravin on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 02:43:38 PM EST

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

I'm not supporting Hillary in the primary but if she win's a Hillary sticker will be on my truck the next day.We gotta (stick) together or some repub jagoff will win the big prize.HOLD YOUR NOSE AND BACK ANY DEM INCLUDING HILLARY.75% OR SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN 100% OF NOTHIN'!

by puresmoke on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 03:21:15 PM EST

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

Hillary is a 'Lieberman Democrat' for sure! She wants your kid to go to Iraq!

by blues on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 03:47:22 PM EST

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

WHAT a ridiculous statement to make. In one sentence you managed to miss the boat (I don't want to use stronger vernacular) twice, quite an accomplishment.

1. Could you please point out where HRC is a "Lieberman Democrat," please.

2. Could you please point out what your evidence is to slam her with "She wants your kid to go to Iraq!"

by georgep on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 05:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

I count TWO sentences. You don't really want me to do the research on her that I did on Edwards, do you? It would not be all that hard!

by blues on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 05:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

All I ask is that you prove that she wants to send my kids to Iraq or admit to a cheap smear.

by georgep on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 06:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

My concern is not that she wants to send anybody's kids to Iraq, or Iran for that matter, but that she hasn't thought about it in exactly those terms. The more she talks the more she sounds like a possible hawk. She doesn't like Bush but she seems to accept the Bush Doctrine on possible unilateral attacks of soverign powers and 'regime change.'

by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 06:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

She has clearly stated that if the Iraq war is not over by the time she were to take over the presidency, she would end it at that point immediately.

""I want to be very clear about this: If I had been president in October 2002, I would not have started this war," she said at the Democratic National Committee's winter meeting, the first chance for the party's candidates to trade direct political blows.

"If we in Congress don't end this war before January 2009, as president, I will," said the New York senator and former first lady."

The claim that she in fact wants this war to continue or send my kids into this particular war lacks substantive proof. Please provide quotes that she indeed wants the Iraq war to continue and, as president, would fight Democrats on a resolution to withdraw troops immediately.

I like a good debate on all candidates, but this stuff seems as uninformed as it gets. Strange that as horrible and as
"pure evil" as she supposedly is, she just got 49% of the poll support from Democrats in my state (Florida.) Those people are all just stooopid and uninformed idiots, of course. "Wait until they find out what she is really like," eh?

Geez.

by georgep on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

In all fairness George I didn't say any of the things you ascribed to my point of view and in fact I don't dispute them, as statements.

What I did say is that while she has criticised Bush's actions she has not reputiatied his ideology, the Bush Doctrine, that the US has some omnipotent right to attack other countries outside of the context of a mandate from the UN or the conventions of war. In fact she has made comments that lead me to believe she has adopted it, particularly on Iran. And I believe that is wrong.

And I didn't support the comment that she wants our kids to die in a foreign war I just suggested that I didn't believe she was thinking about it in those terms, and I still believe that.

And as for the persipacity of the electorate I never mentioned that either and I will leave you to decide who assumes they are low-information and who doesn't. I have one vote and that's all I get, but it's mine.

As for the uniformed jibe, well, suit yourself. I would be happy to debate any aspect of her positions on foreign affairs and international policy you care to name.

by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

To be honest, the comment was aimed at both posters, since you happened to basically "sort of" defend the statement made by blues.

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I read her comments and see things differently than you do, obviously. I suppose different interpretations? I don't really see how your interpretation can take place, but then again, I suppose everybody is entitled to their opinion. I read a strong "only as a last resort and only in concert with the UN" philosophy into her comments.

Here a few interviews and statements that appear to make more sense than a call for "Immediate" complete withdrawal, which I personally believe would be irresponsible.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june07/clinton_01-18.html

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=267447

http://www.clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/index.cfm?topic=iraqletter

Is she calling for an Immediate Withdrawal of troops? No. But she is and has been (for a long time) been calling for a phased withdrawal to hand over security concerns to the Iraqi's, which otherwise will never get the gumption to do so themselves. She honestly strikes me as an "exhaust ALL possible avenues of diplomacy first, and if they fail then attempt another set of diplomatic backroads, and if that fails only go in concert with the UN" type of person. If your opinion differs, that is fine with me. I am certainly aware that I am not within the "majority" opinion here, which is fine by me. I am not interested in being part of a herd or crowd for mollification.

Ah, well. If she is elected (I honestly believe she has the goods and will be the nominee) some of you may have to bemoan the sheer stupidity of Democrats, the naivete of a lazy electorate, the numbness of the uninformed, unwashed masses. I for one would understand that she would receive the nod from an intelligent and highly alert and "awake" electorate, which, after weighing all pros and cons came to the conclusion that she is the best person for the job. Different strokes for different folks, eh?

by georgep on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:27:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

I would be happy speak to this point. But we are running out of room here, since I use indents. I appreciate your links and I have been following her statements pretty closely but a little 'reading between the lines' is what motivated me to put my two cents in.

I am not disputing her public stance, at present, but it is couched in terms which have a dog-whistle hawkishness. This may be partly because she is sensitive to being perceived as less likely to be a strong leader but I have never doubted her strength and I wonder if she isn't either overcompensating or truly believing what she implies.

Blues said she has a bullet in her rifle and I have said she seems hawkish and that is the issue under discussion here, it seems to me.

If you want to thrash this out in more detail then start a diary page on the subject and I promise I will post my views there and support them as best I can. I personally believe she is the one underestimating the electorate. I am depending on them to stand up and be counted this time.

by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

Smear or not, it does not come cheap. I do a hell of a lot of study on this stuff. Hillary has a bullet in her rifle. If you have a kid, she or he may be the next target. Don't make me find all the footnotes. They are there. I do not waste words.

by blues on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 07:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

In other words: I have nothing to back my assertion up, so I have to act like a smart aleck.

Ok, I'll bite. If the info an expert like yourself comes up with does not come cheap then name your price and let me "buy" what you are selling. Fair?

by georgep on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

After the election we had on November 7th and after polls have registered the public's deep anger at the President for trying to escalate the war, you would think Democrats would be pushing legislation with real teeth and not just non-binding nothingness, especially if the GOP was going to filibuster anyway. Well, you'd be wrong. In the audio excerpt, I asked Feingold if this is because of Ben Nelson-ism - that is, because of conservative Democrats who are willing to use a brinkmanship progressive senators rarely use. As you can hear, Feingold says it's even deeper - he says this is a battle between Democrats' Washington consultant class and the rest of the country - and he specifically targets the D.C. elites from the Clinton administration, who he accurately notes largely supported the war from the get-go.

Would have posted this sooner, but was busy.

by blues on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 09:25:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: help with Anybody But Hillary bumpersticker? (none / 0)

With friendly fire Democrats like this who needs the vast right wing conspirators?

by Kingstongirl on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:51:18 PM EST

How to Maintain Progressive Enthusiasm (none / 0)

If Hillary is nominated you can still maintain your progressive enthusiasm. Just remind yourself that women's equality is a progessive value and that electing the first woman president of the United States will inevitably be an advance for women's income, career advancement and respect in the United States of America.

This would not be true if Hillary were a Republican, but Hillary actually is a very liberal Democrat (if you judge by her actual voting record, which ought to be given some weight).

And just remember that Hillary is much more liberal than her Republican opponent.

by francislholland on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:30:26 PM EST

Re: How to Maintain Progressive Enthusiasm (none / 0)

Yes, Francis, but how much more liberal, that's the thing.

by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:46:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to Maintain Progressive Enthusiasm (3.00 / 1)

Yes, equality is a progressive valu, but that doesn't mean any woman candidate is worth supporting just 'cause she's female. I remember Hillary ruining the Clinton healthcare initiative (by banning any discussion of going around the insurance companies), pushing Nafta, waffling about just about everything, etc. She may qualify as a liberal by today's weak standards, but she's sure no progressive. More like an ambitious corporate lawyer.

That said, of course I'll vote for her if she's nominated, but I sure won't be able to get excited about doing so.

by Garret on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 11:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How to Maintain Progressive Enthusiasm (none / 0)

Don't forget her sponsorship of an amendment against flag burning.

by justinh on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 07:22:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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